Chuck, this is a valuable lesson. Science explains many physical things. However, it is certainly not the explanation for the meaning of life itself. But it’s not just that modern people have difficulty relating to the Bible because of thinking in a scientific method way. I think the Christian community itself has worked hard to defend the Bible against science and that has been a distraction for everyone from the real story. I worked with youth for many years and science was often a real barrier to even wanting to know the Bible. The solution was given by leaders to become more educated about science so you could explain how the Bible is “accurate.” I don’t think it’s a science versus Bible question at all. It’s a matter of wearing the right glasses at the right time.
In this comment I think you’re approaching the main point of such discussions, “One could argue if man would not have thrown out the authority of scriptures, we could be future along in our scientific discoveries.”
I actually think that, although we have completely been overruled by science for the last 200 years, things are changing. So pirituality and metaphysics, and a mystical view of the realities in our world are coming back to the forefront of cultural (and even scientific )!discussions. Science answers a lot of things, but it cannot approach Metaphysical because they’re outside its method of work. I think we have a chance to engage culture again about truth as long as we stop against science to be scientific, and instead reclaim our birthright to be metaphysical. Above the physical, beyond the scientific.
Sorry, typo at the end. I meant to say we need to stop battling with science about the scientific. Science can only prove what is actual in the physical world, and we shouldn’t do offended or threatened by that whether it’s aliens or whatever. (OK Aliens are another rabbit trail we will need to address on the podcast and the chats.)
I’m just saying that it’s probably wasted effort to try to out science science even though most Christians would firmly believe that the historical record of the Bible is completely accurate even scientifically.
You are of course, correct that many scientific discoveries actually validate things believed to be errors in the Bible.
When I was in seminary the big battle was the global flood. It was considered ridiculous by scientists who said it is absolutely impossible.
Just yesterday I heard an agnostic scholar from MIT in an interview saying that the truth of the global flood was beyond dispute. It absolutely happened. That’s a massive turnaround in one generation.
My point is that Our scope is much larger than whatever they are studying these days. Genesis 1-3 makes very bold claims about the truth concerning our world.
I think helping modern people understand the significance of the Biblical symbolic code will go a long way toward reclaiming the authority of Bible in general culture, BUT it takes some mind shift.
I think the point is we equate science with truth today so in your description to say the Bible shouldn’t be considered a scientific document it sort of means in our day that The Bible is not true. Is that it?
I think the Bible is completely true, and is focused on revealing the Truth to us about our existence in this world, and the reality of what is truly going on all around us, and what the purpose of our world was, and is.
Seeing science as the validator of what is “true, is very recent in our world, certainly not more than 150 years long out of who knows how many thousands of years.
Wade, thanks for this big contribution to our discussion.
Tell me more about this one: “Atmospheric science: the Bible talks about spheres that protect earth, which was just discovered in the last hundred years.” what spears and what was discovered about it?
Very interesting insight. I watched your video on the Bible is not science and I was going to push back a little but now that I watched this video I see where you are going and I like it:)
Hi Pastor Chuck. My push back really comes from not defending the Bible as a scientific book, because obviously it is not, but when people say you cannot use the Bible and science in the same breath, that is where I push back. I'm not saying that is what you did, that is just where my brain went when I watched your first video. I do love your explanation about the language of the Bible though, not being science but story (or love), and that helps when talking about the Bible and science.
My contention with individuals who make a claim not to discuss Bible and science is this. The word science means knowledge, or the study of knowledge and scripture says, the fear (or knowledge) of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, (loosely translated). So, I argue, that it was God’s plan from the beginning for man to study the world through science and discover Him and a whole bunch of other good stuff that He has for us. If I remember correctly, this is what inspired Sir Issac Newton and many other scientists to begin their pursuit of science.
As for the Bible itself, although it is not a scientific book, it is loaded with science! Which makes since, since God is the author, and it is His desire for man to study Him and His creation. For example, although the Bible does not speak in the language of science (explaining how things necessarily work) it does have scientific discoveries throughout.
• It was Psalms 8 that lead Matthew Fontaine Maury, the “Scientist of the Seas”, to develop oceanography.
• The Ark is considered one of the greatest designs in Nautical science, even more spectacular, the individuals who built it had no experience in nautical design as far as we know.
• Atmospheric science: the Bible talks about spheres that protect earth, which was just discovered in the last hundred years.
• How about medical or biological science when it comes to blood or mold contamination and how to identify it, quarantine it, and clean it. That was written thousands of years ago but just discovered in the last few hundred years.
• The science of Genetics: There are only two sexes
• The science of Astronomy: God determines the number of stars and call them each by name.
• The science of math
• The list goes on and on and on
And the crazy thing about all this, most of these discoveries from today’s scientist, have been in the last several hundred years although the Bible has been around for thousands. One could argue if man would not have thrown out the authority of scriptures, we could be future along in our scientific discoveries. In my humble opinion:-)
This was my push back. But after watching your video I now have a better way to address this issue. Science is not the language of the Bible, story is, but the bible is loaded with science discoveries. Thank you!
I believe that God gave us his Word and he wants us to understand it. He is not a God of confusion and chaos. Everyone understands stories and yes, the bible is full of stories. They are not hard to understand... for the elect. They are drawn to God's word and understand upon reading it, that this is the source of all objective truth and it really is the history and future of God's creation; man.
On the other hand, God hides things from the non-elect. That's why Jesus often spoke in parables. The non-elect don't want to understand the bible. Scripture says it is foolishness to them. That's why they hide behind science, even false science that can be proven false. It's why trying to convince hard hearted people that God exists and is the author of all truth, is pointless. It's casting pearls before swine. They do not want to understand because they love their sin and don't want to be judged.
Chuck, this is a valuable lesson. Science explains many physical things. However, it is certainly not the explanation for the meaning of life itself. But it’s not just that modern people have difficulty relating to the Bible because of thinking in a scientific method way. I think the Christian community itself has worked hard to defend the Bible against science and that has been a distraction for everyone from the real story. I worked with youth for many years and science was often a real barrier to even wanting to know the Bible. The solution was given by leaders to become more educated about science so you could explain how the Bible is “accurate.” I don’t think it’s a science versus Bible question at all. It’s a matter of wearing the right glasses at the right time.
Thanks for your thoughts Heidi. What age group did you work with?
High schooler. My small groups were juniors and seniors mostly, kids contemplating colleges and possible majors.
In this comment I think you’re approaching the main point of such discussions, “One could argue if man would not have thrown out the authority of scriptures, we could be future along in our scientific discoveries.”
I actually think that, although we have completely been overruled by science for the last 200 years, things are changing. So pirituality and metaphysics, and a mystical view of the realities in our world are coming back to the forefront of cultural (and even scientific )!discussions. Science answers a lot of things, but it cannot approach Metaphysical because they’re outside its method of work. I think we have a chance to engage culture again about truth as long as we stop against science to be scientific, and instead reclaim our birthright to be metaphysical. Above the physical, beyond the scientific.
Sorry, typo at the end. I meant to say we need to stop battling with science about the scientific. Science can only prove what is actual in the physical world, and we shouldn’t do offended or threatened by that whether it’s aliens or whatever. (OK Aliens are another rabbit trail we will need to address on the podcast and the chats.)
I’m just saying that it’s probably wasted effort to try to out science science even though most Christians would firmly believe that the historical record of the Bible is completely accurate even scientifically.
You are of course, correct that many scientific discoveries actually validate things believed to be errors in the Bible.
When I was in seminary the big battle was the global flood. It was considered ridiculous by scientists who said it is absolutely impossible.
Just yesterday I heard an agnostic scholar from MIT in an interview saying that the truth of the global flood was beyond dispute. It absolutely happened. That’s a massive turnaround in one generation.
My point is that Our scope is much larger than whatever they are studying these days. Genesis 1-3 makes very bold claims about the truth concerning our world.
I think helping modern people understand the significance of the Biblical symbolic code will go a long way toward reclaiming the authority of Bible in general culture, BUT it takes some mind shift.
I think the point is we equate science with truth today so in your description to say the Bible shouldn’t be considered a scientific document it sort of means in our day that The Bible is not true. Is that it?
I think the Bible is completely true, and is focused on revealing the Truth to us about our existence in this world, and the reality of what is truly going on all around us, and what the purpose of our world was, and is.
Seeing science as the validator of what is “true, is very recent in our world, certainly not more than 150 years long out of who knows how many thousands of years.
Wade, thanks for this big contribution to our discussion.
Tell me more about this one: “Atmospheric science: the Bible talks about spheres that protect earth, which was just discovered in the last hundred years.” what spears and what was discovered about it?
Very interesting insight. I watched your video on the Bible is not science and I was going to push back a little but now that I watched this video I see where you are going and I like it:)
Glad to hear from you, Wade! Feel free to push back anytime you want. :-)
Sorry for the long post, I can't help myself:-)
Hi Pastor Chuck. My push back really comes from not defending the Bible as a scientific book, because obviously it is not, but when people say you cannot use the Bible and science in the same breath, that is where I push back. I'm not saying that is what you did, that is just where my brain went when I watched your first video. I do love your explanation about the language of the Bible though, not being science but story (or love), and that helps when talking about the Bible and science.
My contention with individuals who make a claim not to discuss Bible and science is this. The word science means knowledge, or the study of knowledge and scripture says, the fear (or knowledge) of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, (loosely translated). So, I argue, that it was God’s plan from the beginning for man to study the world through science and discover Him and a whole bunch of other good stuff that He has for us. If I remember correctly, this is what inspired Sir Issac Newton and many other scientists to begin their pursuit of science.
As for the Bible itself, although it is not a scientific book, it is loaded with science! Which makes since, since God is the author, and it is His desire for man to study Him and His creation. For example, although the Bible does not speak in the language of science (explaining how things necessarily work) it does have scientific discoveries throughout.
• It was Psalms 8 that lead Matthew Fontaine Maury, the “Scientist of the Seas”, to develop oceanography.
• The Ark is considered one of the greatest designs in Nautical science, even more spectacular, the individuals who built it had no experience in nautical design as far as we know.
• Atmospheric science: the Bible talks about spheres that protect earth, which was just discovered in the last hundred years.
• How about medical or biological science when it comes to blood or mold contamination and how to identify it, quarantine it, and clean it. That was written thousands of years ago but just discovered in the last few hundred years.
• The science of Genetics: There are only two sexes
• The science of Astronomy: God determines the number of stars and call them each by name.
• The science of math
• The list goes on and on and on
And the crazy thing about all this, most of these discoveries from today’s scientist, have been in the last several hundred years although the Bible has been around for thousands. One could argue if man would not have thrown out the authority of scriptures, we could be future along in our scientific discoveries. In my humble opinion:-)
This was my push back. But after watching your video I now have a better way to address this issue. Science is not the language of the Bible, story is, but the bible is loaded with science discoveries. Thank you!
I believe that God gave us his Word and he wants us to understand it. He is not a God of confusion and chaos. Everyone understands stories and yes, the bible is full of stories. They are not hard to understand... for the elect. They are drawn to God's word and understand upon reading it, that this is the source of all objective truth and it really is the history and future of God's creation; man.
On the other hand, God hides things from the non-elect. That's why Jesus often spoke in parables. The non-elect don't want to understand the bible. Scripture says it is foolishness to them. That's why they hide behind science, even false science that can be proven false. It's why trying to convince hard hearted people that God exists and is the author of all truth, is pointless. It's casting pearls before swine. They do not want to understand because they love their sin and don't want to be judged.
Thanks for your comment Craig